Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
(1 votes) 
Regulars
Offline
I've recently come across this twoset video "5 things we wish we knew learning the violin" and a few things caught my attention. I'm mostly just sharing here (and I may want to go back to look at it in the future, so this is like bookmarking it too).
The five things in question being the following (there are chapters about each of them, so it's easy to skip to the one you're interested in) :
1. Listen for resonance (<=> overtones ?)
2. Finding a good teacher
3. There's not one correct posture that suits everyone
4. Pay attention to the center of gravity in the left hand
5. Get a good instrument
Now, points 1 and 4 caught my attention. This post is about point 1, resonance (tone), and it being linked to overtones.
When you play a note (any note), there's actually a bunch of notes above it that are emitted alongside it (but in a much more muted way) - the overtones, also called 'harmonics'.
They say it's helpful when you can hear the overtones (I guess : some of the overtones) of the note you play.
I tried listening for them on my viola, and I've managed to hear some on a few notes, but it's awfully hard (to play a clean note and listen for the overtones). Can any of you hear them? I'm just experimenting, I don't know whether it'll get me anywhere.
---
On the same subject but related to a different instrument (voice) : polyphonic singing! where you amplify a specific overtone while singing the note. She's singing beautifully just by herself ...
Offline
Noting I have not watched the video, going by your remarks.
I have wondered about the string you are playing vibrating and if it also makes strings on either side also emit some sort of sound. I don't hear it.
My former cello teacher got into harmonics, a little. It may not be the same thing being talked about. We put the finger on the string, ever so lightly when bowing. It gives a harmonic tone. You know to do it when there is a little circle above the note. I,hope I am remembering this correctly and not confusing a couple of things.
It gives a neat sound. One time, in a piece, I had to do a harmonic on the A string, I believe, fingering a D on that A, and playing the open A with it, double stop(?). I have a hard time bowing two strings at one time. It sounds very nice, when done correctly.
I like this conversation here, it will not get too detailed, beyond me, and full of youTube links, LOL. We can read our thoughts, and add others, if necessary, via links. I just do better without all or a bunch of links and no personal discussion, and also with discussions that are not going beyond the scope of understanding. This is interesting. When I get a chance I will watch some of the link provided, and find out more elsewhere to continue this conversation.
I need to check out the left hand center of gravity. I have never heard that mentioned.
Thanks for this, @wtw.
The Bumble Bee Flies
Regulars
Offline
I see what you mean about playing harmonics by different 'light' fingerings. It's not what I'm talking about.
I found a demonstration here. Sorry, this is yet another youtube video. No theory and not much 'talking' in it, though, just an example : the person plays a fundamental note - a C -, then amplifies separately the different harmonics that are contained within it so that we can notice them, and goes back to the normal note : at which point you keep hearing the harmonics, knowing what to listen for.
From what I gather from the TwoSet video, being able to listen for those harmonics while you play would improve one's tone (I guess they are not produced if you crush the strings, or don't have the right speed, and so on).
Personnally I'm not against youtube videos, as long as the content is actually summarized/discussed.
Offline
I like YouTubes like you described.
Hmmm. I have been super busy today, but I am intrigued. I can't quite understand why that would help, but, maybe tonight I can watch and see.
Can you actually hear more than just the note. I mean, this is weird. Definitely going to check this out.
The Bumble Bee Flies
Offline
Okay, from the first link in the first post in this topic, Around 5:20 he starts playing with the D string. Apparently, not pressing the strings down into the fingerboard is part of getting the resonance out, ie pressing the finger ever so lightly in the cello string to get a harmonic. Right after that, he does the harmonic in the A string, a very short period. Again, like the cello harmonic.
Interestingly, I think that was the purpose of it in the pieces we did it with my cello lessons. I remember my instructor saying something about the other sounds coming through playing with the original note. He never mentioned the word, "resonance", it was just harmonics. We had half an hour, and it was towards the end, and I had no idea what he was talking about. I was just trying to do what he was doing. This video really made it clear.
I think that maybe, we not only have to pay attention to hitting the sweet spot on the fingerboard when fingering the notes, but, not press so hard. I think there are probably times when you do want that hard press sound, though.
Now, I am wondering, do we pay attention to intonation first and get comfortable with actually hitting the sweet spot and then hone it so we are not pressing too hard all the time, or try to do them both at the same time.
Another thing that comes to mind. There are times, and very few times, when I think that I have accidentally hit the sweet spot with my cello and got the pressure right. The note seems to be fuller and clearer when that happens. It is not the same as when I know I am pressing hard and hit the sweet spot and get that slight ring, This is when I am playing, and all of a sudden hear it, and it is different, then it is gone, and I rarely hit the note and pressure right again during that session.
Also, they mentioned something about legato and going from string to string, briefly. I think they said that that resonance helps with creating that smooth legato. So, I was wondering, do you think that if I can get the pressure corrected, my bowing will not sound as choppy? I try so hard to make it smooth, flowing, etc, but, so far, not successful.
These are things that crossed my mind.
I need to fast forward to the balancing of the left hand after I rewatch this resonance part one more time, later.
This is am excellent topic. The video in the 3rd post confused me. I will stay away from that. I couldn't connect what I was hearing to a viola or cello. After I understand what is going on better, I may revisit that video, though.
Great links, Videos were well made, right to the point. That is what I like.
Question, from the way I understand it, the undertones become clear with good resonance? I need to look that up.
.
The Bumble Bee Flies
Regulars
Offline
Mouse said
Around 5:20 he starts playing with the D string. Apparently, not pressing the strings down into the fingerboard is part of getting the resonance out,
No, this is (mostly) independent of the left hand : the harmonics he's playing by fingering the fingerboard very lightly at different places, at 5:20, are the notes already 'contained' in the base D note.
Basically they're saying that you can hear/feel them more, while playing a D, if you're playing with resonance. You don't have to finger the D extra-light (anyway, it's an open string if you're in 1st position, so there's no fingering involved at all here).
That would be what your teacher was referring to, about "the other sounds coming through playing with the original note".
I think that maybe, we not only have to pay attention to hitting the sweet spot on the fingerboard when fingering the notes, but, not press so hard. I think there are probably times when you do want that hard press sound, though.
I've read several times that it's better to press down "as little as necessary". Except if you're aiming for a special 'crisp' effect, or such, where you need to 'hammer' down your fingers onto the fingerboard. I understand that pressing down too hard with the left hand will cause tension (and restrict speed), which is to be avoided everywhere as a general rule. But most of the tone production comes from the right hand, I think (as long as you have good intonation, of course) : pressing down too hard with the bow would prevent getting a nice resonant tone.
There are times, and very few times, when I think that I have accidentally hit the sweet spot with my cello and got the pressure right. The note seems to be fuller and clearer when that happens.
That's good! so you know what to aim for. I'm sure if you pay attention and listen carefully, you will get it more and more often. I'm not at a point where I get a satisfying tone all the time, but I'm definitely getting much better. A few months ago it was a bit random : good days and bad days, and it felt like there was nothing I could do to help it. I think I've been improving recently (hope it stays that way).
Also, they mentioned something about legato and going from string to string, briefly. I think they said that that resonance helps with creating that smooth legato.
That's part of what got me interested too. Especially for bow changes / détaché…
So, I was wondering, do you think that if I can get the pressure corrected, my bowing will not sound as choppy? I try so hard to make it smooth, flowing, etc, but, so far, not successful.
I'd associate that more with the right hand : bow pressure (and speed and sounding point).
Question, from the way I understand it, the undertones become clear with good resonance? I need to look that up.
Actually I'm not sure if it's about hearing them or not really : Brett says it more like you can "feel" them. There's also this oh-so-helpful comment that "when you'll hear them, you'll hear them" ;--)
Offline
I am glad you started this topic. I am finding I am paying more attention to my bow pressure, and fingering pressure. I noticed it this morning. I think I did hear the different tones in my violin a couple times. Not consistently, though. But, bowing was not really covered much, beyond how to hold it, even from day one with my original instructor. Weird. Nice info. I need to rewatch and see what else I can get from the videos or misinterpret(?).
The Bumble Bee Flies
1 Guest(s)
Gordon Shumway
Mouse
Violaman
